Preston Frazier

I’m here with saxophonist Dennis Mitcheltree and pianist Johannes Wallmann to discuss their album Holding Space.

Johannes, we last chatted when your Precarious Towers was released in 2022.

Johannes Wallmann

Yeah, that sounds right.

Preston Frazier

I’m pleased to speak with Dennis Mitcheltree. It’s great to have you both here to discuss the new album, Holding Space, which is out on February 7th.

How did this album come about?

Dennis Mitcheltree

We talked about recording an album, and Johannes said, “How about we do a duo album?” I said, “Yeah.”

We’ve been playing together in various configurations for 27 years.

Johannes Wallmann

In 1998, Dennis was preparing for a tour of the Midwest—I believe it was your first tour with your group. The piano player you had lined up pulled out at the last minute, so you needed a new one.

Our mutual friend and former teacher recommended me. I was finishing graduate school and had some time, and I was excited to go on tour with someone whose music I wasn’t yet familiar with. I checked it out real quick, and I loved it. I said yes, and we did a two-week tour.

We’ve done about six or seven tours together, including several in Europe, playing with pickup bands and doing duo gigs.

We both used to live in New York, which is where we met. When we moved to California independently—I ended up in the Bay Area, and Dennis was in Los Angeles—it became harder to do one-off performances. I think we actually played less when we both lived in California than when I later moved to Wisconsin.

Dennis is originally from Wisconsin, so it’s been a great opportunity for him to come back, combine music-making with family visits, and for me to escape the Wisconsin winter and head to California.

Preston Frazier

Holding Space was recorded in Madison, Wisconsin, at Hamel Music Center in July 2023. How long did it take to record the album?

Johannes Wallmann

We did a little mini tour of the region—I think we did three performances—which really helped lead up to this recording.

We spent a lot of time going back and forth over email, pitching composition ideas and songs we were writing for this project. It’s mostly new music. I would send something to Dennis and say, “How do you like this? Do you like the key? Should we try a different one?” Then he’d send me music, and sometimes he’d revise it and say, “Ignore the old version.” We were learning, writing, and consulting each other along the way.

We know each other’s musical styles really well from having played together for so long. We weren’t just writing for the tenor saxophone and piano—we were writing for each other’s musical personalities.

The University of Wisconsin built a gorgeous concert hall for its school of music, which is where I teach. Since a piano and saxophone duet is very exposed—almost like a solo piano recording—I wanted to record in a space where I’d be very comfortable with the piano. Unlike other instruments, pianists don’t get to bring their own instrument to a session, so there can be surprises.

I was fortunate to have a gorgeous new piano in my teaching studio, and I was able to have it moved to the recital hall. A piano technician worked on it to make it sound perfect, and a recording engineer set up a mobile recording setup for us.

We had two full days to record. It was a live recording in the sense that we were both in the same space—no overdubs, no edits. Just a beautiful space, great microphones, and wonderful instruments.

Dennis Mitcheltree

It was such a welcoming space. I could hear the beautiful sound of the piano, and I could hear my own sound reverberating in the hall with this natural reverb I didn’t have to manipulate.

It felt more like performing in a concert setting than a studio recording.

Preston Frazier

Dennis, I think your last solo album was Golden Rule. How did the composition process for this album differ from what you did with Golden Rule?

Dennis Mitcheltree

We wrote the music specifically for this duo setting. That doesn’t mean the compositions couldn’t be adapted for a quartet, but we designed them for this format.

One of my jazz piano students, who was studying improvisation with me, listened to the recording and was amazed at how much emphasis there is on melody. Without drums and bass, you get back to the essence of the music.

The entire recording was centered around melody—me playing melodies with Johannes’ harmonies, working within the compositions’ rhythmic structures. It was really freeing because I didn’t have to focus on a whole rhythm section, just Johannes.

Because we’ve played together for so long, we can anticipate where the other is going. And I have to say, Johannes, man, you sound wonderful on this recording. It’s really beautiful.

Johannes Wallmann

Likewise!

When you’re playing in a group, you think you’re multitasking, but really, you’re just switching your attention back and forth between different instruments. With just one other musician, your focus is 100% on them. That changes the playing and the writing process.

Dennis Mitcheltree

Any activity—if it’s just two people—it’s always going to be more intimate than if there are four people involved.

Preston Frazier

I noticed that when I listen to the album, it feels like I’m hearing an entire band. It’s so full and complete.

How long did it take you to compose the pieces for the album?

Dennis Mitcheltree

I always have ideas floating around, and when I know I need music for a project, I sit down and refine them.

About two or three months before recording, I started working on my ideas in earnest.

Johannes Wallmann

I have a kind of scrapbook—some ideas are in my music notation software, and others are just voice memos on my phone. Sometimes I’ll record myself playing or even just sing an idea.

About six months before recording, we started bouncing ideas back and forth. I revisited my old ideas and thought about what would work best in a duo setting.

One piece, Pretty Good Life, was written a couple of years ago for another project. It didn’t make it onto that album, but I loved the tune and thought Dennis would play it beautifully.

Then there’s Soul Occupant—I wrote that a week before Dennis arrived in Wisconsin! When he got off the plane, I said, “Surprise! Here’s a new piece.”

Overall, there are 18 tracks on the album. Some are shorter than what we’d play in a quartet setting because there are fewer solos.

A few pieces were recorded but didn’t make the final album. They just didn’t quite fit the overall flow.

Dennis Mitcheltree

We each had a composition that, while good, didn’t quite click in the duo format.

Preston Frazier

Will there be physical copies of Holding Space?

Johannes Wallmann

Yes, CDs will be available through our label, Shifting Paradigm, which has been a great partner for my last few projects. They distribute digitally as well as sell physical CDs through their website.

Dennis Mitcheltree

Thank you, Preston.

Johannes Wallmann

Thank you.

Dennis Mitcheltree website: www.dennismitcheltree.com
Johannes Wallmann website: www.johanneswallmann.com

We’re on BlueSky at mitcheltree.bsky.social and wallmann.bsky.social 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/dennismitcheltreejazz and  www.facebook.com/WallmannJazz/  

Instagram: www.instagram.com/dennismitcheltree and www.instagram.com/johannes.wallmann

YouTube: www.youtube.com/@dennismitcheltreecom  and www.youtube.com/@WallmannJazz

Buy the album on bandcamp.com where you can also find their wonderful individual releases. 

Also check them out on social media: 

Dennis Mitcheltree website: www.dennismitcheltree.com
Johannes Wallmann website: www.johanneswallmann.com

We’re on BlueSky at mitcheltree.bsky.social and wallmann.bsky.social 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/dennismitcheltreejazz and  www.facebook.com/WallmannJazz/  

Instagram: www.instagram.com/dennismitcheltree and www.instagram.com/johannes.wallmann

YouTube: www.youtube.com/@dennismitcheltreecom  and www.youtube.com/@WallmannJazz