– Preston Frazier 

It’s good to speak with you about your new album, ‘I Made It This Far.’

We last spoke in November of 2022 about the excellent Animal. Logic songs that came out back then.

Deborah has been very, very busy with all aspects of her career. 

It’s great to have these original 11 songs. Plus, if you buy the album on bandcamp.com, there are three additional tracks.

So Deborah, how are you doing?

 I know you have been touring a little bit, too, with The Refugees.

Have you been doing some solo gigs as well?

 – Deborah Holland

There’s been almost no gigs since in the past year. Refugees did a few shows when ‘California’ came out.

I occasionally do a show here and there. I will be doing a CD release show in LA on March 14th at McCabe’s, and I’ll do another Canadian CD release show near where I live on the Sunshine Coast in Roberts Creek at the end of April. I’ve got a few shows booked in May in the Seattle area and maybe some things on Vancouver Island in November, but not a lot.

I haven’t toured in a long, long time. I can’t make it work financially. 

– Preston Frazier 

Let’s jump into ‘’I Made It This Far’.

Talk about the writing and recording process. Did you have an album in mind when you were writing the songs?

– Deborah Holland

 No. I never have a record in mind.

Usually, all of a sudden, I have 11 or 12 songs, and I go, “I guess it’s time to make a record!”

I don’t even think about it as a collection or a theme.

– Preston Frazier 

You handled the production, and your bandmate Wendy Waldman to help mix with Abraham Parker 

 – Deborah Holland

Yes, they both contributed to stitching it together.

 The album was recorded in probably eight different studios.

With that many engineers and in that many recording programs. It was one of the most challenging recording processes I’ve ever had! 

 It wasn’t until the overdubs and the vocals went on that I thought it would get finished.

 I used multiple different programs, such as Pro Tools, Logic, and Cubase, so there was a lot of transferring, things that got lost, things that had to be redone, and things that had to be edited.

It was a challenging record to make.

– Preston Frazier 

Last time we spoke, I asked about your writing process. Do you write a computer, do you write a keyboard, do you write a guitar?  Has your composing process changed over the last few years since your previous album? 

 – Deborah Holland

Do you remember what I said last time?

– Preston Frazier 

Yes, you said whatever moves you. You may pick up a guitar or switch to a keyboard—whatever works at the time. 

 – Deborah Holland

That’s still true.

 I usually have an idea, whether a song title or a line or some vague notion, and yes, I’ll pick up a guitar or go to the piano and words and music together simultaneously, except for songs that get co-written. That’s a different process. Still, the songs that I write by myself, which is usually the majority of the songs that I record, are the way they get written, and I think you have what you have four co-writes on this album.

“Wildfires” was written with Shirley Wiebe, a songwriting student of mine.

The song was written about the British Columbia wildfires. Of course, sadly, I was in LA while the fires were happening.

Anyway, this song wasn’t completely fleshed out. There were musical and lyrical elements, and I asked Shirley if I could take it on and make some changes.

Fortunately, she said, “Yes, not everyone will do that, and she’s very pleased with the results.” 

Yes, that’s completely different from how my other songs were written. I also co-wrote two songs with Dan Navarro.

“Circling the Drain “was recorded for his last album. 

That might be one of the older songs of this group.

 And then you can visit me in a

A few years ago, he visited me in Vancouver, and we wrote “Everybody’s Drinking But Me.” Actually, I just came back from visiting him. He lives out in the desert in LA near Palm Springs, and we wrote two new songs.

He and I seem to really click when we write together, and we get into a really good zone that doesn’t happen with that many people. The writing process for these is a little different from the norm for me. 

Preston Frazier 

Let’s talk about the first song on the album, “ Thankful (Thanksgiving 2023)”. Would you talk about how you developed the song?

 – Deborah Holland

 I think this is the best song I’ve ever written. 

It’s the song that has made me the happiest of any song I’ve written.

I went to visit my brother and sister-in-law on Thanksgiving 2023, right after The Refugees played in Chicago. Like many families, we did that thing where you go around and say what you’re thankful for.

 It just got me thinking about how I’m still so lucky despite whatever difficulties and challenges I have in my life—and I do have some very significant ones. That song just poured out of me. It just seemed like, yep, that’s a no-brainer, so I really had fun writing that song.

 I’m very pleased with the recording. I don’t know if you’ve got to see it, but I made a very fun video of it, too, where I got lots of my friends to hold up signs saying what they’re thankful for. Yeah, I’m thankful for that.

Nick recorded drums—this is not how you make a record. The next step was bass, followed by the overdubs and vocals.

That’s how this one got recorded, and all the overdubs were recorded in Florida. That’s where Patterson was at the time.

The vocals were recorded in L.A. with Wendy Waldman, and the guitar and bass were recorded in British Columbia.

– Preston Frazier 

It’s a glorious start to the album, and it draws the listener right in. The next song is “A Long Time Ago.”

– Deborah Holland

I don’t think it’s a tear-jerker, but it has some sadness. It’s about a friendship that gets lost.

 This song and two others on the album feature a string quartet.

 Adrian Dolan lives on Vancouver Island and is masterful at string arrangements.

 He plays the violin and viola, and then he brings in a cellist. I’ve used him quite a few times in the past.

 If I were super wealthy, I would do a whole record with him. I love what he does.

– Preston Frazier 

He did the strings on “Everybody’s Drinking But Me Me” too.

The next song, “Circling The Drain,” features lap steel by Patterson Barrett, banjo.

– Deborah Holland

That’s a song that Dan Navarro and I wrote. Right. It’s another song about life, the ups and downs, and the message is to try not to be so hard on yourself and to get some joy out of life.

Even though inevitably, we know what’s going to happen eventually, you should have some fun along the way.

 Dan sang on the two songs that he co-wrote, those are the only two songs that Wendy and I didn’t do the vocals on.

– Preston Frazier 

That brings us to “ My Lifeline,” where you play the accordion, piano, and dulcimer.

 – Deborah Holland

 I wrote “ My Lifeline” on a weird little instrument. It’s kind of a fake dulcimer.

But it doesn’t record very well. It doesn’t get a great sound. So I borrowed a real dulcimer.

I had been performing that song for about a year with Michael Friedman, a finger-style guitarist who lives on the Sunshine Coast where I live.

 I had to have him on the record because I love his open tunings. His playing almost sounds Hawaiian. 

 Patterson Barrett handles the solo.

The accordion was the very last thing I added. I did that back in Vancouver.

 The song “East Porpoise Bay” has an accordion because the piano played as these little licks in the last verse, and I felt like it needed to be enhanced somehow.

– Preston Frazier 

And that brings us to “ Born With A Broken Heart.”

– Deborah Holland

Now, that is a sad song. It was written about my younger son, who was actually born with a broken heart.

He had open heart surgery at four months. I had the title, and I thought, well, how can I not write a song called “Born of the Broken Heart ” , but it took me about 10 years to be able to sit down and actually write the song because I knew it was gonna be hard song to write, and it was painful to think about.

Yes, it’s a beautiful song, and you know he deserves to have one.

 He’s had a lot of challenges in life and continues to have challenges. Now he’s a grown man—almost 24—and he’s a very sweet person.

 It’s a lovely tribute to him, describing the difficulty of loving someone with all those challenges.

– Preston Frazier 

It is a touching song, and the context you gave me makes it even more touching. And it’s simply beautiful, especially with the acoustic bass and your acoustic guitar.

Next up is “East Porpoise Bay”. 

– Deborah Holland

 I have written maybe a dozen songs about the weather. It’s ridiculous because I lived in LA for 33 years.

You don’t write songs about the weather when you live there.

Typically, the weather is not something that’s on your mind, but it definitely is living in Canada. That song uses the weather as a metaphor for life.

One day, something good happens, and the other day, something terrible happens, and it just changes like the weather, and you know your perspective will change.

 I actually live on East Porpoise Bay. I was looking out my window when I started writing that song, which is a wonderful tribute to it.

Preston Frazier 

The next song, “Unfinished Business,” features you on acoustic guitar, Scott Badcock on drums and percussion, fretless bass by Carl Sealove, and pedal steel guitar by Patterson Barrett. 

  Deborah Holland

This one’s more challenging to talk about. It means what it says.

It’s about a relationship stuck in the past that can’t move forward because things can’t get resolved. And my frustration with that happening.

 It’s one of the newest songs.

 – Preston Frazier 

The instrumentation is beautiful. It has a fretless bass, I think, and it’s the only one.

 – Deborah Holland

I originally put a regular bass on it, but it needed the more fluidity of a fretless bass.

Carl Sealove is a local LA resident I’ve known for years. Carl’s daughter was my younger son’s babysitter many years ago.

He’s someone that plays with Wendy Waldman all the time.

 – Preston Frazier 

It’s a great production and arrangement choice. 

Next is a song we briefly touched on, “ Everybody’s Drinking, But Me,” which you wrote with Dan Navarro. 

 – Deborah Holland

Let me mention one other thing about it. It’s got a lot of chords—like a gazillion chords! That was the last song Patterson Barrett was putting overdubs on.

He was really struggling to come up with a part, and I said, “Forget it. Let’s leave this one. I’ll be fine with just acoustic guitar and bass.” He said, “Oh, give me one more chance.” All of a sudden, he just nailed it and knocked it out of the park! 

 The pedal steel he plays on this song is my favorite part of anything he did on the record. 

It is glorious!

 – Preston Frazier

We also talked a bit about “Everybody’s Drinking But Me,” another co-write with Dan Navarro. Is there Anything else to add? 

I have another excellent string arrangement by Adrian Dolan.

– Deborah

Yeah, it’s funny. I had thought it was going to be a humorous song about somebody who’s sober and who goes about in a world where everybody’s drinking but me, but Dan had another idea, and it really turned into something else.

I thought it would be an uptempo kind of country rock type of thing.

I’m happy with how it turned out. 

It’s not really about a sober person anymore. It’s an entirely different song than I thought it would be.

– Preston Frazier 

 Next up is “September ( The Saddest Month of the Year.”

 – Deborah Holland

That song is only about the weather. There’s nothing else about it. In September, it starts to get colder in BC. You put away your patio furniture and start taking out the warmer blankets and all that stuff.

Normally, my records have a couple of songs that are more humorous, like Loudon Wainwright III’s humor.

 Not Weird Al Yankovic humorous, and I was very happy to have at least one song on the record where there’s no way you’d cry.

– Preston Frazier 

It’s a different dynamic. The instrumentation is superb.  You and Wendy Waldman provide spot-on harmonies, and then Patterson Barrett, with all those keyboards and electric guitar, really adds something special

You’re playing the piano too.

– Deborah Holland

Funny, Patterson wanted to put an electric guitar on it, and I said no, but he did it behind my back and sent it to me, and then I loved it!

 – Preston Frazier 

“Wildfires” is timely. Tell me about it.

The song could have been written 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or yesterday.

 – Deborah

It’s very timely. I made a lyric video for it that I’ll probably put out soon with videos of devastating fires.

I really didn’t think of it as one of the most important songs on the record, and then the LA fires happened.

 – Preston Frazier 

Does the sequencing of songs on an album matter in the digital age? 

– Deborah

I’m old school. To me, a record is a journey, and an album is a journey; I will always pay attention to the sequencing.

I know not many people listen to a whole record from beginning to end, but those who do should be taken on a journey, and that’s what I like to do.

– Preston Frazier 

You did that, especially with the last song on the album, “50 Year Reunions”. Oh, geez.

– Deborah

It’s the last song that’s different from every other song on the record because it’s an orchestra. So it’s so different. I mean, it’s not folk, it’s not Americana.

It’s not pop. I don’t know. What is it? It’s almost like a Broadway song from a Broadway musical or something.

It’s definitely stylistically very different than the rest of the record. 

– Preston Frazier 

 There’s a cheese factor of a lot of musicals, which is not present in “ 50 Year Reunion “.

The song hit home for me.

– Deborah Holland

This song started as an idea generated by a friend who posted on Facebook something about time and how it flies. I wrote, “Time doesn’t fly; it just disappears.” 

She said, “Oh, my God, that’s so perfect,” and I thought, “Yeah, yeah.” Then my little songwriter antenna went up and said, “Oh, I gotta use that !”

I think it works well. 

I’m pleased with these songs—the production and playing, too. 

I feel like There’s an intimacy with these vocals that  I don’t know I’ve ever captured before.

I think I’ve sung well. I think there are good vocals on my other records, but there’s a connection between my voice and the actual song that I don’t know I’ve ever quite nailed before, at least not in my head.

Maybe the listener will feel it, but there’s more of a connection in my mind. That’s what I think I’m hearing in these songs.

 Wendy Waldmann was a huge factor in bringing together all these disparate pieces and slightly incoherent things.

Thanks to her, the record came together as well as it did. I have to credit her.

 – Preston Frazier 

‘I Made It This Far’ is available now as a download and CD. It’s quite a journey. Thank you for your time. 

– Deborah Holland

Thank you so much.

https://deborahholland.net/join-deborah-hollands-mailing-list

https://deborahholland.bandcamp.com/album/i-made-it-this-far